tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37709909.post5920833380990279083..comments2023-10-31T10:52:44.454-05:00Comments on Making Birth Safe in the US. (aka Hospital Birth Debate): Fetal and Newborn Memories (Learning)Baby Keeperhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13771156154070579302noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37709909.post-72932896931513262952007-04-27T12:22:00.000-05:002007-04-27T12:22:00.000-05:00I might point out that it is a usual tactic for so...I might point out that it is a usual tactic for some one defending their belief system to post so many links to stories that no one will follow all of them to determine if the links presented are actually relevant to the post. That doesn't help your argument. Neither does making a post so long that very few people have the time to read it at all. You might reach more people if you were to tackle one subset of what you wrote at one time--say like over a week or a month.<BR/><BR/>You did actually say that the doctor in question wasn't going to learn. That is, in essence, name calling. If he were the doc to my children and had done a good job with them, then I would be offended as well.<BR/><BR/>The information you presented was broad, interesting, and made me think (although not follow all those links). I disagree with Dr. Wirth and the methods of his studies, but that doesn't mean that I disagree that babies feel something. I also don't think that the doc from Tales from the Womb would deny that either. You just don't like his politics, and that appears to have affected your reading of his posts. Demonizing everyone who follows evidence based medicine isn't a good tactic either.<BR/><BR/>And, lastly, you completely alienated me when you made this statement: <I>they say cutting through a woman's abodominal wall to pull her baby out is safe for her and doesn't harm the baby.</I> Good grief, lady. In some cases, this is the only way that a mother and child will not die--including me. Statements like those make reasonable women want to never read another word you write. C-sections may be over used, but they are definitely safer than dying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37709909.post-63681568360502883122007-04-26T23:57:00.000-05:002007-04-26T23:57:00.000-05:00Mom of NICU graduates:Your graditude for your NICU...Mom of NICU graduates:<BR/><BR/>Your graditude for your NICU physician and your defense of him is understandable and admirable. <BR/><BR/>I am sure he was extraordinary in his care and advocacy. This is not about him (there was zero name calling), however, and it's not about your and your babies unless you make it so. And, then it has nothing to do with me. The science stands on it's own regardless of what you believe. (Did the info about epidural and cesarean comment at the end trip this trigger? You know, the greatest disservice to women and babies is the denial of the impact of these on them -- EVEN when needed to save their lives. If the truth of it were acknowledged a woman and her baby could get help for it rather than having to carry it around for their entire lives. There is also science and technology to support healing it. <BR/><BR/>Here's the progression -- I posted a reasonable comment in response to his blog post, and he devoted an entire post about what I said. Yes, it was derrogatory -- to MY profession and more so to a mutual colleage whom I happen to respect greatly. There was no reason to "blast" and discredit Dr. Wirth whose work is very scientifically based. Another blogger physician picked up the thread and posted your physician's on hers, with care not to mention me -- which I won't get in to here. In my post on my blog, I refered to both of them and what they wrote. <BR/><BR/>I get to express myself on my blog -- just as your physician does on his. You are right -- we don't get to control everything. He quite blatantly expresses himself towards our president -- something that some would feel as offended over as you seem to. I have an emotional, maternal connection as you do. My son is in Iraq sacrificing his life to maintain our freedoms that both physicians and I and you expressed here. You're welcome - someone's children had to be the ones. My son will never be the same. Yep, things beyond our control happen. I know. You learned it early, unfortunately. I could post to your physician calling him a liar and to quit slamming my president <I>because MY son is there. It is happening to me!</I>. It doesn't change the fact that your child experienced life threatening entrance into the world. It doesn't change the fact that my child is in life-threatening danger as well. Do you think that it is possible for any of our men and women to go to Iraq and not be affected by war? While the VA argues about who has PTSD -- do you think it is possible to go to war and NOT be affected? Do you know what it takes for them to prepare to go and to be in life threatening danger 24/7? They are 6,000 miles from the land of the free and the comfort and safety of home. Not one will be "ok". <BR/><BR/>Our highly charged experiences with our children doesn't change the science. Your child lived through a life threatening situation and gifted and skilled caregivers (is that the name calling you refer to?) took care of them. They experienced it. We owe to our birthing babies to acknowledge them and to improve the conditions -- this is why women want to birth at home.<BR/><BR/>The "bogus theory" is scientifically founded. To suggest -- yes, emphatically -- that doctors, nurses, parent, and society see the proliferation of research about 1) the prenate's experience and learning and 2) the newborn/infant experience and learning ALSO tells us that the laboring and birth baby also is reacting to the experience and that neurons are wiring up in response to that experience just as it was doing months, weeks, and days before birth, and in the weeks after. <BR/><BR/>This counters the notion that we can do whatever we wish to the mother and baby during labor and birth -- as long as it is in the hospital and we have a license and malpractice insurance. The premise that baby's aren't affected by drugs, interventions, their mother's fears and joys, noise, lights, strangers, shots, the neonatalogist rubbing his chest so hard that they skin comes off is false. The premise that AFTER they leave the hospital at some arbitrary time in infancy, they suddenly are affected by what parent's do is false. <BR/><BR/>There are zero lies. My presentation of the existing science that shows we should recognize that the laboring and birthing baby experiences, responds, and learns in response to his environment JUST as the prenate and the newborn does is based on science. <BR/><BR/>It doesn't discount your experience or anyone's -- unless you let it. Truly, the acknowledgement of the critical period of labor, birth, and days following, while undergoing medical care, can only help to enhance the baby and parent's experience. To recognize that the baby -- in his body and his brain -- will hold the memory of the experience. <BR/><BR/>It's too bad the message of my post here is lost in the perceptions you have as well.<BR/><BR/>THE POINT of it all is that yes, the baby does experience labor and birth NICU -- life saving and traumatic at the same time. Yes, the baby feels and remembers it. Just because NICU doctors and parents of NICU babies might find that discomforting, doesn't make the science go away. There is an amazing cutting-edge collective of a diverse group of professionals, including OB's, RN's, Neonatalogists, and pediatricians who are implementing the information. They have amazing information about the long term effects of the care during prenatal, LABOR AND BIRTH, and, postnatally. They have techniques for assisting mothers and babies to reconnect and heal what they didn't get to have. At least you know this now for later. My work with NICU babys afterwards has given me some good information to help understand the relationship dynamics of later life. It's out there should you ever decide it makes sense, like when your child "over reacts" to lights, beeps, and touch. The help is there -- that's all I want you to know. The baby has his or her story to tell about her experience -- when it's heard it creates and allows integration of the love the parent has and the deep compassion the staff had DURING the necessary and violating medical care. <BR/><BR/>So, I have not discounted the role of the neonatal physician and nurses. I "made fun" of the use of scientology and media BS about silent birth and Tom Cruise to discredit the obvious science that is about labor and birth as well as prental and post natal development. It's so simple and obvious to me that I am always surprised to see professionals so against it.<BR/><BR/>Neonatal physicians are advocates for the babies in their care. Often they are the ones to lead the field of obstetrics in treating babies with more respect. They will and do when they are open to the information.Baby Keeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13771156154070579302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37709909.post-24690915300092205332007-04-26T20:46:00.000-05:002007-04-26T20:46:00.000-05:00Baby Keeper, perspective really changes how things...Baby Keeper, perspective really changes how things are read. I don't think the author "blasted" you at all in this post. <BR/><BR/>Could he have completely smeared you personally instead of just writing about the science and the philosophy/psychology regarding those who adhere to this still unproven in a peer reviewed manner theory/pseudoscience? Yep. He didn't.<BR/><BR/>Does he disagree with you? Yes.<BR/><BR/>Did he resort to name calling as you did on your blog? No.<BR/><BR/>Did he state that you refuse to learn new things? No.<BR/><BR/>Did you? Yes.<BR/><BR/>All those links you put in mean nothing when it comes to a premature infant who still has millions of neuronal connections that will not occur as a result of normal biology--not from any treatment.<BR/><BR/>No where did he say that a mother or medical team can do whatever to a fetus, premature infant, or full term infant. Yet, you decided to make a fallacious jump of logic to that point. <BR/><BR/>If what you and others believe is true (especially Frederick Wirth), then all the blame for my child's prematurity likes solely on me. However, I have no idea what I did incorrectly. I was thrilled to be pregnant. I ate properly. I took plenty of time off from work to just exist with the two lives growing within me. I have one normal child and one not so normal child. Your theories and those of others are only trying to find some reason for why things go wrong. The truth is that sometimes it is genetics or stress from an unforeseen event or just reality. <BR/><BR/>We cannot control how everything goes in our lives. Quit slinging your lies and bogus theories. As my chosen name says, I know this doctor. He fought to have the proper care, including kangaroo care, for my children. He was a tireless advocate for them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com